Women in ministry

I don't honestly think about "women in ministry issues" a whole lot.  I guess I just go about my work not thinking of myself as a female pastor; just a pastor.  I have almost never felt directly discounted for being a woman in my work.  But a conference call last week got me thinking about what makes being a woman in the clergy different then being a woman in other historically male-only professions. 

Here's the deal - there are other vocations; medicine, law, police work - where women now serve but haven't always.  But what makes women clergy different than say, women doctors, is that while there are perhaps some specialties in medicine in which women are underrepresented,  there are not entire hospitals where women are not allowed to practice.  There are not entire courthouses all over America where lawyers cannot argue a case if they are female.  This is not true of the clergy.  There is something unusual about serving in a profession where there are entire institutions in America where women are not allowed to do my job. 

Several Missouri Synod  (a conservative Lutheran denomination which does not  support the ordination of women) pastors and some Evangelical ones have asked (recently and in the past) if I might meet or email them to talk about ministry and the emerging church.  I always accept and am delighted that they want to talk but at the same time am aware of the fact that we are both ordained  pastors but that they are part of churches that don't believe that I should be allowed to do my job based on my gender.  I guess it always feels...vulnerable.  And ironic.   But it's never ended up being a bad experience.  Perhaps this shows us all some hope for the Body of Christ.

Comments

[kendra]

YES! I get what you're saying on this one. It's also a little strange when the tradition that reared you is one that says it's not ok for you to be ordained. So, there might even be family friends praying that you come to your senses. In 2009, I doubt that happens in other fields (medicine, law). PS awesome picture. Is it from a vestments catalogue?

[Nadia]

Kendra,
I too was raised in a tradition which does not even permit women to pray in front of men.

The pic is of Dawn French, famous British actress and star of The Vicar of Dibley; a wonderful BBC comedy that you can get on Netflix...highly recommend

[PS]

Our female pastor feels some not-so-positive vibes from one of the male pastors in the local interdenominational pastor's group. Nevertheless, the other pastors are perfectly fine with letting her run the group and the community activities they sponsor. None of the male pastors are organized enough or community minded enough or something to get anything coherent together.

[Rev. M. Christopher Boyer]

Nadia,

Just remember that every time you meet with one of those pastors or members of their congregations that you are positively modeling for them WHY women SHOULD be ordained and allowed to exercise their God-given gifts. Over time, your example will make it easier for them to understand and they will be part of shifting the balance in their congregations/denominations.

I was 12 when my Southern Baptist church elected its first woman deacon. By the time I got to seminary and realized there was STILL an ongoing debate on women in ministry, I was stunned. It's all about what comes to seem normal to us...

Blessings,
Pastor Chris

[Jessica]

I think the fact that they're willing to co-opt your ideas for use in their church while denying that a woman should be capable of doing what you're doing in their church is painfully ironic, but at the same time, they may be taking more away than just your ideas...at least, that's what JK Gibson-Graham says :-P

[Timothy R. Gubsch]

I'm glad that we might be able to say that one's gender is not a factor when considering one's God-given gifts. The same eventually ought to be in regards to one's sexual orientation.

[Paulus]

I asked my buddy Shorty what he thought about all this and even though he was cooling his heels in the pokey at the time, he managed to write me back:

"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,[a] he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,[b] but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

[deb]

Thanks for your post! From one female-type pastor to another... :)

deb

P.S. I LOVE the Vicar - one of my fave shows.

[Kimmy]

As a woman in ministry (ELCA), I figured out quite some time ago that there would be a pretty good chance that no matter where I went as a pastor, I would likely be the first *female* pastor for many, if not all, of the folks in the faith community. Yet, I've been serving at the church I'm now at for 7 years. So, when I recently had an interview with another congregation and the call committee seriously had an issue with my gender, I was taken aback. I guess I'm not as inured to it as I thought I was! In my small town's ministerial association, the men serving at the other churches (which don't allow women in ordained ministry) have long gotten over any hang-ups with me being amongst them. Besides, I expect there to be a significant difference between us. But, in my own denomination? 39 years later and counting? Surprising.

[Matt]

Just wondering, what do you say in response to 1 Timothy chapter 3?

Grace and Peace.

[robyn Beckley Vining]

I wasn't going to comment, but I can't leave that last comment just dangling there :)

Thank you for your work. Another woman, in the field, doing it. Thank you. I am pleased to hear your experiences have been so positive. I wish that were the case for me. (Heck, I wish seminary had been less brutal!) I love to hear you expand more on the article above, and how you have seen those experiences as beneficial to each party. I think that's how it should be.

I'm a pretty big Phylliss fan myself :)

Thank you for your work. Grace and peace to you.

[laura Aase]

Check out this distinctly woman pastor encounter. Although, it may have happened if I'd been the custodian, too.

http://actsoftheaase.wordpress.com/2009/03/08/it-aint-me-babe/

[Beth]

I like the comment about sexual orientation. There are many "types of people" (for lack of a better term) who experience exclusion in various parts of society. Hopefully feeling vulnerable in given situations will turn to feeling included in every situation, as society moves forward.

[Beth]

I like the comment about sexual orientation. There are many "types of people" (for lack of a better term) who experience exclusion in various parts of society. Hopefully feeling vulnerable in given situations will turn to feeling included in every situation, as society moves forward.

[Judy Redman]

I hadn't actually thought about the place of women clergy in quite this way before! My experience of being ordained for over 20 years is that many of the denominations that don't ordain women tend to be willing to accept me as a duly appointed representative of my denomination and treat me with the same level of respect as they would one of my male colleagues. There is tacit agreement that we just won't discuss the issue of ordination of women.

My denomination (the Uniting Church in Australia) is only 32 years old, and all of the parent churches had ordained women prior to union, so the people who vehemently opposed it went elsewhere at union, but there are still some within the denomination who don't like the idea and they are much more likely to be vehement about it than peole from "outside". I suspect that people from those other churches who contact you are not likely to be the ones who are vehemently opposed to ordination of women - possibly they are the ones who will support the idea when it comes up in the councils of their churches.

[Lola Himrod]

Enjoyed your blog. Introduced to it by my Episcopal Church priest (woman). However, my older eyes find the yellow print hard to read. Hope this can be changed sometime.

[viagra online]

Your needs, experiences, travel plans, skills and talents have taken a back seat to making sure the others around you are happy, safe, and nurtured on a daily basis. There is absolutely nothing pathetic about that. Kick him in the shin for me will ya, that ought to liven up the room!